U.S. SENATOR SUSAN M. COLLINS (R-ME) HOLDS HEARING ON NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER.

Original Source: Political Transcript Wire

U.S. SENATE GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE HOLDS A HEARING ON NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER

AUGUST 3, 2004

SPEAKERS: U.S. SENATOR SUSAN M. COLLINS (R-ME)

CHAIRWOMAN U.S. SENATOR TED STEVENS (R-AK) U.S. SENATOR GEORGE V. VOINOVICH (R-OH)

U.S. SENATOR NORM COLEMAN (R-MN) U.S. SENATOR ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA) U.S. SENATOR ROBERT F. BENNETT (R-UT) U.S. SENATOR PETER G. FITZGERALD (R-IL)

U.S. SENATOR RICHARD C. SHELBY (R-AL) U.S. SENATOR JOHN E. SUNUNU (R-NH)

U.S. SENATOR JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN (D-CT) RANKING MEMBER U.S. SENATOR CARL LEVIN (D-MI) U.S. SENATOR DANIEL K. AKAKA (D-HI) U.S. SENATOR RICHARD J. DURBIN (D-IL) U.S. SENATOR THOMAS R. CARPER (D-DE)

U.S. SENATOR MARK DAYTON (D-MN) U.S. SENATOR FRANK R. LAUTENBERG (D-NJ) U.S. SENATOR MARK PRYOR (D-AR)

WITNESSES:

JOHN BRENNAN DIRECTOR TERRORIST THREAT INTEGRATION CENTER

PHILIP MUDD DEPUTY DIRECTOR CIA COUNTERTERRORIST CENTER

PATRICK HUGHES ASSISTANT SECRETARY INFORMATION ANALYSIS HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT

JOHN PISTOLE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR COUNTERTERRORISM AND COUNTERINTELLIGENCE FBI

PHILIP ZELIKOW 9/11 COMMISSION STAFF

CHRIS KOJM 9/11 COMMISSION STAFF

[*] COLLINS: The committee will come to order.

Good morning. Today, the Governmental Affairs Committee holds its second hearing on the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission calling for a restructuring of our intelligence organizations.

The 9/11 Commission provides a highly detailed picture of our intelligence structure on that tragic day. Ultimately, our committee's responsibility is to recommend how this structure should look in the future.

We must act quickly to consider this report and to complete our assigned task of reporting legislation by October 1st. And, indeed, we are acting quickly, starting with our hearings last week.

As we move with both deliberation and speed, we should use the commission's recommendations as a thoughtful and informed guide. That does not mean that this committee will be a rubber stamp. The final shape of our restructuring legislation will be determined by what we learn at these hearings.

The informative and insightful testimony we heard last Friday from the commission chairman, Tom Kean, and the vice chairman, Lee Hamilton, was a very good start.

The testimony focused, as our committee has, on the two most important recommendations regarding the executive branch: first, establishing a national counterterrorism center, and second, creating the position of a national intelligence director.

Yesterday, the administration acted on some of the same issues that we are considering today. I applaud the president's swift and decisive action to move forward with some of the commission's most significant recommendations.

The fact that two of its highest priorities are the restructuring recommendations before this committee emphasizes the importance of our work.

The two panels of witnesses before us today -- one from the intelligence agencies and the other from the 9/11 Commission staff -- will discuss the improvements that have been made to our post-9/11 intelligence capabilities, the weaknesses that still remain and the solutions that we should consider.

Progress has been made since 9/11. The CIA's counterterrorism center and the FBI have undergone substantial changes. The Department of Homeland Security and the Terrorist Threat Integration Center are entirely new.

But as one of our witnesses here today, TTIC director John Brennan, told the 9/11 Commission in April, quote, "We, as a government and as a nation, are not yet optimally configured to deal with the terrorist threat," end quote.

We can learn a lot from TTIC, since, in many ways, the proposed national counterterrorism center would be a more robust version of it. This committee has closely followed the development and implementation of TTIC and has held two hearings on its structure and its authority -- an issue that has been of particular interest to Senator Levin and me.

The proposed center would be a super TTIC. If this more powerful version is to succeed, it must get what it needs, both in resources and in its place in the priorities of the agencies that collect intelligence. At times, getting the resources it needs, especially the expert and experienced personnel, has been a challenge for TTIC.

The difficulty in resolving the resource and authority issues involving TTIC demonstrates how important it is for Congress to clearly define in legislation the authority and parameters of the proposed center.

The intelligence structure that stood for 50 years during the Cold War performed well under many administrations and many different agency heads. The new intelligence system we are building for the war against terrorism must do the same.

We have an obligation not just to the Americans of today, but to Americans of generations to come to accomplish that mission.

Senator Lieberman?

LIEBERMAN: Thanks very much, Madam Chairman. Thanks again for calling this second hearing on the 9/11 Commission recommendations so quickly.

The new specific terror threats that we have learned about in the last few days; the very fact that, this morning, this Capitol has checkpoints for vehicular movement that were not there yesterday reminds us that we do not live in normal times. And therefore, our normal ways of doing business here on Capitol Hill are no longer acceptable.

Our country is under threat of attack, so we must move, and move rapidly, to repair what the 9/11 Commission has documented as the vulnerabilities in our intelligence apparatus.

I thank you, Madam Chairman, for taking quick and decisive action in scheduling these hearings.

Our hearings will be followed, as we've learned, by many hearings throughout this month, both here in the Senate and on the House side.

LIEBERMAN: Yesterday, President Bush also acted quickly in response to the 9/11 Commission report.

I was pleased and encouraged that the president has embraced the two major recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, which is the creation of a national intelligence director and the creation of a national counterterrorism center.

I am troubled that the recommendation the president is making for the national intelligence director appears to lack the powers that the commission wants it to have, particularly the power over the budgets of the constituent intelligence agencies.

And I think the challenge to us here, and in some ways the danger, is that we will create a new office but not give it the strength to overcome the stovepiping and lack of clear command authority that the 9/11 Commission documented.

Today, we're going to focus on the second of the two major recommendations, the creation of a national counterterrorism center.

There, the president's recommendations seems to embrace the commission's proposal, although there are a lot of details for us to fill in, hopefully in cooperation not just with one another, but with the White House.

After studying what went wrong before 9/11 and how the federal government has responded since 9/11, the commission concluded that we are still not maximizing our intelligence investments and efforts to perform our most important task, which is protecting the security of the American people from Islamist terrorist attack.

The commission found that there are still stovepipes, a lot of work going on within the stovepipe, but often not sharing of information between them, and no one in charge, as Governor Kean and Congressman Hamilton said to us in testimony last Friday.

In its report, the 9/11 Commission concluded that a number of intelligence problems -- for example, uncoordinated watch lists, the failure to share information, the failure to connect dots -- made it more difficult for the United States to foresee and stop the terrorist attacks of September 11th.

In the place of those weaknesses that they saw, the commission recommends this national counterterrorism center designed to forge an unprecedented unity of effort, as the commission describes it, against Islamist terrorism. It would replace the time-worn Cold War-era stovepipe approach.

All the information available to our government about terrorist threats to our homeland, whether from the CIA, FBI, state and local officials or open sources, would be shared and analyzed in this one place to stop terrorists.

But the national counterterrorism center, as recommended by the 9/11 Commission, would not only be a fusion center, it would also be a command center for domestic and foreign joint intelligence planning. And this is a very significant, in some ways revolutionary, change.

After integrating all sources of information, the center would analyze and shape strategies to stop terrorists in their tracks before they are able to do damage here in America.

The national counterterrorism center would not execute those operations, as I understand the commission recommendation, but would help map the plan, call the plays and assign operational responsibilities to the appropriate agencies.

For the first time, one entity would be able to look across agency boundaries and the foreign-domestic divide to make sure intelligence is being shared, that joint plans are in place and that those plans are being implemented. And someone, the director of this center, will be accountable finally.

LIEBERMAN: The national counterterrorism center, as I read the 9/11 Commission's report, should be seen by comparison to the Pentagon as a unified combat command. And the director of the center would be the unified commander of our intelligence forces in the war against Islamist terrorism.

It's very important, I think, to separate for clarity this counterterrorism center, which is focused on the war against Islamist terrorism, and the national intelligence director overhead, who oversees that terrorism center's work against Islamist terrorism but also all of our intelligence apparatus, foreign and domestic, dealing with weapons of mass destruction, particular regions of the world, particular problems that we are concerned with.

So this is a bold approach, as the commission acknowledges. But no one can seriously argue, after the 9/11 report, that the current approach has been adequate to meet these radically new Islamist terrorist threats of the 21st century. And no one can argue that the threat we face is not grave and demands this kind of imagination and bold action.

So, Madam Chairman, I look forward to hearing the views of our witnesses today on the commission's recommendation on this counterterrorism center. We've got before us commanders, in their own right, of the frontline intelligence troops in the war on terrorism.

LIEBERMAN: I know that there are questions about the proposal the commission has made. I've got some questions myself.

But what I know most of all is that the status quo failed us on September 11th, and unless we change it, it will fail us again. For when everyone is in charge, no one is in charge. When everyone is calling their own plays there's no team. And the defense of the American people suffers as a result.

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

COLLINS: Thank you.

I want to welcome our first panel of witnesses. This panel consists of officials from four of our most important intelligence agencies. I'm very sure that their experience and expertise will help the committee in the task before us.

I want to thank each of you for your long commitment to public service. Each of you has served honorably and well. And we very much appreciate your joining us today.

John Brennan is the director of the Terrorist Threat Integration Center, known as TTIC, the intelligence agency created by the president in the aftermath of the September 11th attacks.

I recently had the privilege of visiting TTIC several weeks ago. I think I was the first official visitor to your new headquarters, and I was very impressed with the work that is being done.

John Pistole is the executive assistant director for counterterrorism and counterintelligence at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Again, this committee has a long relationship with Mr. Pistole. We've worked together on several issues, including the terrorism financing investigation.

Lieutenant General Patrick Hughes serves as the assistant security for information analysis at the Department of Homeland Security.

We welcome you here today, as well.

COLLINS: And finally, we will hear from Philip Mudd, the deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency, who clearly plays a key role.

We welcome all of you. And we're going to begin with Mr. Brennan.

BRENNAN: Good morning, Chairman Collins, Senator Lieberman and committee members. It is an honor to appear before you today to talk about the Terrorist Threat Integration Center, TTIC, and the president's decision to establish a national counterterrorism center.

As this committee knows, the president has embraced the commission's recommendation for the creation of a centralized organization to integrate terrorist threat information.

Yesterday, in the Rose Garden, the president formally announced that he will establish a national counterterrorism center and take other actions designed to continue the process under way since September 11, 2001, of strengthening America's ability to win the war on terrorism.

This is a natural extension of the work and successes the administration has already achieved through the establishment of TTIC.

In his State of the Union speech in January 2003, the president called for the creation of an integrated center to merge and analyze all threat information in a single location.

On 1 May of last year, that vision became a reality with the stand-up of TTIC. Over the past 15 months, TTIC has endeavored to optimize the U.S. government's knowledge and formidable capabilities in the fight against terrorism.

For the first time in our history, a multiagency entity has had access to information systems and databases spanning the intelligence, law enforcement, homeland security, diplomatic and military communities that contain information related to the threat of international terrorism.

In fact, TTIC has direct-access connectivity with 26 separate U.S. government networks, with more networks coming online, enabling information-sharing as never before in the U.S. government.

This unprecedented access to information allows us to gain comprehensive insight to information related to terrorist threats to U.S. interests at home and abroad.

BRENNAN: Most importantly, it enhances the government's ability to provide this information and related analysis to those responsible for directing, disrupting, deterring and defending against terrorist attacks.

In addition, there currently exists within the TTIC joint venture real-time collaboration among analysts from a broad array of agencies and departments who sit side by side, sharing information and piecing together the scattered pieces of the terrorism puzzle.

These partners include not only the FBI, CIA and departments of State, Defense and Homeland Security, but also other federal agencies and departments, such as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Health and Human Services and the Department of Energy.

As envisioned by the president, this physical integration of expertise and sharing of information enables and empowers the key organizations involved in the fight against terrorism.

Collectively, they are fulfilling their shared responsibilities in a fused environment, doing business jointly as TTIC.

This fusion and synergy will be further enhanced when CIA's counterterrorist center and the FBI's counterterrorism division co- locate with TTIC in the coming months.

This integrated business model not only capitalizes on our respective and cumulative expertise, but it also optimizes analytic resources in a manner that allows us to cover more effectively and comprehensively the vast expanse of terrorist threats that will face the homeland and U.S. interests worldwide for the foreseeable future.

This integration of perspectives from multiple agencies and departments, represented in TTIC, is serving as a force multiplier in the fight against terrorism.

On a strategic level, TTIC works with the community to provide the president and key officials a daily analytic product on the most serious terrorist threats and related terrorism information that serves as a common foundation for decision-making regarding the actions necessary to disrupt terrorist plans.

BRENNAN: Rather than multiple threat assessments and disparate information flows on the same subject matter being forwarded separately to senior policy-makers, information and finished analysis are now fused in a multi-agency environment, so that an integrated and comprehensive threat picture is provided. If there are analytic differences on the nature or seriousness of a particular threat, they are incorporated into the analysis.

As is evidenced, the Terrorist Threat Integration Center embodies several of the characteristics envisioned by the 9/11 Commission report for the proposed national counterterrorist center. TTIC is an existing center with joint intelligence, staffed by personnel from the various agencies and well-positioned to integrate all sources of information to see the enemy as a whole.

It is likely, for those reasons, that the commission recommends that TTIC serve as the foundation of a new national counterterrorism center. As a longtime proponent of structural reform of the intelligence community, I fully support the integration concept and the establishment of a national counterterrorism center.

In the weeks and months ahead I look forward to working with TTIC's partner agencies, the Congress and the White House to build upon TTIC's strong foundation and create a national counterterrorism center.

The potential benefits of a national counterterrorism center are enormous; so, too, however, are the challenges associated with government transformation. I have experienced those challenges firsthand over the past 15 months in the establishment and development of TTIC.

Together we will need to determine how to implement the national counterterrorism center in a thoughtful and evolutionary manner so that we do not adversely affect ongoing activities in the global war on terrorism, which are so ably led by the colleagues on this panel. We all have a special obligation in this regard.

In conclusion, I believe the benefits to be gained from the integration concept, as envisioned by the president and called for by the 9/11 Commission, strongly supports the creation of a national counterterrorism center.

BRENNAN: And I look forward to working with you to implement a national counterterrorism system that maximizes the security and safety of all Americans, wherever they live or work.

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

COLLINS: Thank you.

Mr. Pistole?

PISTOLE: Thank you, Madam Chairman and Senator Lieberman, members of the committee. Appreciate the opportunity to be here today to address you.

I would like to take a brief opportunity to address the work the FBI did with the 9/11 Commission in my introductory remarks here.

As you are aware, the FBI's worked closely with the 9/11 Commission and its staff, and we commend it for its extraordinary efforts.

Throughout the process, we have approached the commission's inquiry as an opportunity to gain further input from outside experts. We took its critique seriously, adapted our ongoing reform efforts, and have already taken substantial steps to address its remaining concerns.

We're gratified and encouraged that the commission has embraced our vision for change and recognize the progress that the men and women of the FBI have made to implement that vision.

We agree with the commission that much work remains to be done, and will consider its findings and recommendations as we refine our continuing transformation efforts.

Following the September 11th attacks, Director Mueller implemented a comprehensive plan that fundamentally transformed the FBI with one goal in mind: establishing the prevention of terrorism as the bureau's number-one priority.

He's overhauled our counterterrorism operations, expanded our intelligence capabilities, modernized our business practices and technology, and improved coordination with our partners.

In terms of priorities, Director Mueller established a clear set of 10 national program priorities that ensures that all terrorism- related matters are addressed before resources can be dedicated to other priorities.

To implement these new priorities, since 9/11 we have increased the number of special agents assigned to terrorism matters by 111 percent, the number of intelligence analysts by 86 percent and the number of linguists by 117 percent.

We've also established a number of operational units and entities that provide new or improved capabilities to address the terrorist threat.

These include things such as the 24/7 Counterterrorism Watch, or CT-Watch; the National Joint Terrorism Task Force; the Terrorism Financing Operation Section; deployable "Fly Teams," which lend counterterrorism expertise wherever it's needed; and we played a key role in establishing the Terrorist Screening Center and Foreign Terrorist Tracking Task Force, and of course have added substantial assistance to the Terrorism Threat Integration Center.

We're also created the Terrorism Reports and Requirements Section, the Counterterrorism Analysis Section, and other aspects of the operational side of the FBI, which has allowed us to perform our duty.

We also centralized management of our CT program at headquarters to ensure consistency of CT priorities and strategy across the organization, to integrate CT operations domestically and overseas, to improve coordination with other agencies and governments, and to make senior managers accountable for the overall development and success of our CT efforts.

PISTOLE: In terms of the intelligence program, the FBI is building an enterprise-wide intelligence program that has substantially improved our ability to direct strategically our intelligence collection and to fuse, analyze and disseminate our terrorism-related intelligence.

After passage of the USA Patriot Act and the issuance of related attorney general guidelines, and the ensuing opinion by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that brought down the wall that sharply limited the ability of law enforcement and intelligence officers to share information, we quickly implemented a plan to integrate all of our capabilities to better prevent terrorist attacks.

Director Mueller elevated intelligence to program-level status, putting in place a formal structure and concept of operations to govern FBI-wide intelligence functions and establish field intelligence groups, or FIGs, in every field office.

The new workforce -- the FBI is actively working to build a workforce with expertise in intelligence. While much remains to be done, we have already taken substantive steps to ensure this transformation.

On March 2nd of this year, Director Mueller adopted a proposal to establish a career path in which new special agents are initially assigned to a small field office and assigned to a wide range of field experiences. After approximately three years, agents will be transferred to a large field office where they'll specialize in one of four program areas -- intelligence; counterterrorism or counterintelligence; criminal matters, the traditional work of the FBI; or cyber matters -- and will receive advanced training tailored to their area of specialization. We are in process of implementing this new career track now.

We're also establishing a formal intelligence officer certification that can be earned through a combination of intelligence assignments and training. When fully implemented, this certification will be a prerequisite for promotion to the senior ranks of the FBI.

We've also implemented a strategic plan to recruit, hire and retain intelligence analysts. The bureau has selected veteran analysts to attend events at colleges and universities, as well as designated career fairs throughout the country. We've executed an aggressive marketing plan and, for the first time in FBI history, we are offering hiring bonuses for FBI analysts. In our special agent hiring program, we have updated the list of critical skills we are seeking in candidates to include intelligence experience and expertise, as well as foreign languages and technology.

We continue to grow the field intelligence groups, or FIGs, established in all 56 FBI field offices, and are on track to add some 300 intelligence analysts to the FIGs in FY '04.

PISTOLE: The FIGs conduct analysis, direct the collection of information to fill identified intelligence gaps, and ensure that intelligence is disseminated horizontally and vertically to internal and external customers, including our state, local and tribal partners.

We currently have 1,450 FIG personnel, including 382 special agents and 160 employees from other government agencies.

It's important to note that the FBI's intelligence cadre is not limited to intelligence analysts, but also includes agents, language analysts, surveillance specialists and others. It takes all of these specialists to perform quality intelligence production at the FBI.

The FBI's plan to create a cradle-to-grave career path for intelligence professionals at the FBI parallels the one that has existed and functioned so well for our agents and has been codified in our "Concept of Operations for Human Talent for Intelligence Production."

To support information-sharing, each JTTF has a special agent or intelligence analyst dedicated to producing raw intelligence reports for the entire national security community, including our state and local partners and other JTTF members.

Understanding that we cannot defeat terrorism without strong partnerships, we have enhanced the level of cooperation and information-sharing with state and municipal law enforcement and through our 84 Joint Terrorism Task Forces and dissemination through vehicles such as the FBI intelligence bulletins, the alert system and the terrorist screening center.

We also improved our relationships with foreign governments, in both law enforcement and intel services, by building on the overseas expansion of our Legat program, which the Congress has supported so vigorously, by offering investigative and forensic support and training and by working together on task forces and joint operations.

Finally, the FBI has expanded outreach to minority communities and, in concert with DHS, have improved coordination with private businesses involved in critical infrastructure and finance.

As the commission points out, we have much work still to do, but we have made great progress and continue to move forward in accordance with a clear plan. With the support and understanding of lawmakers and the American people, I am confident we will be successful in completing our transformation and ultimately prevail against terrorists and all adversaries who do harm to our nation.

PISTOLE: The FBI looks forward to an ongoing public discussion of ways to support further information-sharing and collaboration in the intelligence and law enforcement communities, and thanks the 9/11 Commission and this committee for your service.

Thank you for inviting me here again today. I look forward to any questions you may have.

COLLINS: Thank you.

General Hughes?

HUGHES: Good morning, Chairman Collins, Senator Lieberman -- I hope my microphone is on now. I think it is.

COLLINS: If you'll bring it closer to you.

HUGHES: OK.

COLLINS: It's very directional.

HUGHES: Thank you.

COLLINS: Thank you.

HUGHES: ... and distinguished members of the Committee. I'm privileged to appear before you today to discuss the role of the Office of Information Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security in the context of the 9/11 Commission report and yesterday's announcement by the president to support the advent of a national intelligence director and the establishment of the national counterterrorism center.

It has been my honor to serve in the U.S. intelligence community since 1970. During that period, many changes have occurred. Numerous events have been the focus of our best efforts to gather and provide information our nation needs to defend, protect and sustain our way of life.

Many of the changes that have occurred, however, have been driven, some by technology, but many by success and, unfortunately, some by failure. I personally believe it's important to remember some of the successes over the years.

Since 9/11, we have not had a major attack in the United States, but we have seen such events from afar, and we know that we can suffer under attack again. I see in the next evolution of the U.S. intelligence community that we are now beginning in that long and complex context.

What makes this period and the changes we are discussing today so important is the fact that our homeland is, indeed, directly threatened, and the consequences of that threat are so critical to our future. Thus, we all want to get the details of whatever changes we make right. The pathway to a transformation of our intelligence community is just beginning.

At the Department of Homeland Security we are working hard to coordinate and integrate the intelligence and information necessary to protect our people and our critical infrastructure.

HUGHES: Our efforts are dependent for success on our federal partners, notably the Terrorism Threat Integration Center, the Central Intelligence Agency and, especially in the domestic context, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and on our partnerships and interactions with the states, localities and municipalities of our country, the tribal groups, and interaction with the private sector, and of course with the citizens of this great nation.

We still have much work to do, but we have made tremendous progress. And the dedication and devotion of duty to those who do the work of intelligence at the Department of Homeland Security is unparalleled.

Our goal will be to continue this landmark work by supporting and participating in the national counterterrorism center and by supporting and working with the international intelligence director toward our common purpose: to defeat terrorists and prevent terrorism here in our homeland.

Thank you very much for the chance to address you this morning. I'm looking forward to your questions.

COLLINS: Thank you.

Mr. Mudd?

MUDD: Thank you, Madam Chairman, Senator Lieberman, others here. This is really a privilege to be here today.

We are now years into a war with the terrorist network whose members planned and conducted the attacks of September 11th. With the 9/11 Commission recommendations available to us now, we have a critical piece in place that helps us toward a better organization of our agencies as they engage in a war that is likely to last, in my view, for many years.

The president, yesterday, announced in the Rose Garden that he will establish a new national center and take other actions designed to continue the process under way since September 11, 2001, of strengthening America's ability to win this war.

MUDD: I believe the president's establishment of this national center will build on the concepts already in place in TTIC and the DCI Counterterrorist Center, which I help manage.

This government has the most powerful counterterrorist capability on the planet. We must commit to ensuring that we coordinate effectively across the government so that we attack and destroy this target with a unified approach.

A national counterterrorism center coordinated across the U.S. government's analytic and other elements will strengthen this effort, in my view. Assigning responsibilities across the government through NCTC planning could ensure that missions are clear and accountability well-defined. A center that could improve the link between foreign intelligence and …