How to Deal With Kim.(Interview)

In 1997, Hwang Jang Yop, former secretary of North Korea's Workers' Party, startled the world by becoming the highest-ranking official ever to defect from the Hermit Kingdom. The architect of North Korea's ideology of juche, or self-reliance, Hwang was once a close aide to the late Kim Il Sung and his son, Kim Jong Il. Six years since his defection to the South, he may visit the United States for the first time this fall to testify before Congress. His counsel may be especially valuable now. Last week Washington and Pyongyang announced that they had agreed to hold six-way talks--China, Japan, Russia and South Korea will also be included--over the nuclear standoff. In an exclusive interview Hwang met with NEWSWEEK's Hideko Takayama in Seoul to discuss the tensions with Pyongyang. Excerpts:

Can North Korea be persuaded to give up its nuclear program?

The present Sino-American relationship doesn't seem to me to be firm enough. Their ties need to be strong enough to pull China away from its past relationship with North Korea. It's also important to make Kim understand just how the United States views Pyongyang. For that, a couple of announcements by President Bush and Beijing visits by the secretary of State are not enough. It's important to show Pyongyang the kind of determination that the United States has shown with the Iraq war.

Is it possible to remove the present regime without using force?

Yes. If China can persuade North Korea to accept Chinese-style reforms, the North Korea problem will be solved. If the United States and China are united strongly, Japan and South Korea will follow, and so will Russia. Pyongyang will have no other choice. You have to understand that the Chinese reform policy does not allow the existence of a "Great Leader" dictatorship. That explains why Kim Jong Il never had a high regard for the Chinese policy and used to dismiss Deng Xiaoping as a revisionist.

Can defectors and the human-rights issue play a more powerful role in resolving the Kim problem?

Absolutely. Have you ever read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, the Chinese warrior-philosopher? It says, "The superior militarist foils enemies' plots; next best is to ruin their alliance; next after that is to attack their armed forces." I would add a few words before the last option: "Destroy the enemy's spirit with a great cause." North Korea's human-rights and refugees issue can be a much more effective weapon to remove the regime. Its importance is ...