Printing World articles from January 2005

Printing World archives from January 2005

John Dollin leads UK with order for XL105.(John Dollin Printing Services and Heidelberg Graphic Equipment Ltd. contract)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... The UK's first Heidelberg XL105 installation is set for early May. John Dollin Printing Services in Whitchurch has placed an order for a four- colour with coater and extended delivery. The press will be used for mainly commercial...

Parkside jobs in jeopardy.(Parkside International PLC)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... A further 200 jobs are on the line after Parkside International went into administration in late December, as a result of the insolvency of Parkside Films in November. Parkside International, a non-trading holding company, has three...

Print in tsunami aid.(aid relief work for the tsunami victims)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Printers in London and Birmingham have worked through the holiday to aid relief work for the tsunami victims in Asia. In Birmingham, Partners in Print produced more than 500,000 flyers and donation forms beginning on Boxing Day when the...

London College of Communication reunion.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... The London College of Communication (formerly Printing) is to hold a reunion on January 26 at 6pm. It is to be held at the Elephant and Castle and its organiser Carol Dische says: `Everyone is welcome and it will be a wonderful opportunity to...

Printing Industry Noticeboard.
January 6, 2005... If you have made a new year resolution to find a new job, don't forget to register your cv on the Printing Industry Noticeboard (www.printingindustrynoticeboard.co.uk). It is free of charge for those posting their cv and allows companies to...

Bezier buys Columbia printer.(Bezier Group and Inca Columbia contract)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Display print specialist Bezier has bought the UK's first Inca Columbia digital printer for its Wakefield site.This is the first commercial delivery Columbia since the model completed its testing period earlier this year and will be Bezier's...

Postal service competition.(publishing industry to gain)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Publishing companies are unlikely to benefit from competition in the postal service for several years in the absence of a viable rival to the Royal Mail's Presstream distribution service, according to the Periodical Publishers Association....

Zap changes its name.(Zap Reprographics changes its name to Zap Digital Print )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Zap Reprographics, Guildford, has changed its name to Zap Digital Print after it invested #170,000 in three new digital printers and two finishing units. The printers include a Canon 105 with booklet finisher, a Canon CLC3220 four-colour and an...

Ex-Blackburns Singh joins Howitt.(Gurdev Singh joins Howitt as sales and marketing director)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Gurdev Singh, who left Leeds direct mail and print company Blackburns last August after an eight-month spell, has been appointed strategic development director at Howitt. Mr Singh joins the Nottinghamshire firm in March and will be...

TripleArc starts year with Stream on board.(TripleArc acquires Stream Direct Communications )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... TripleArc has entered the new year as an expanded company following the acquisition of Stream Direct Communications on December 31 taking sales to #70m and adding a further 245 staff to its 150 headcount. The print management company has...

Oracle acquires Peters business from Bretton.(Oracle Design acquires Frank Peters Colour Printers from Bretton Communications Group)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Oracle Design has acquired the assets, goodwill and debtors of colour printer Frank Peters from Bretton Communications Group. More than #1.5m of the #3m package was spent on buying the debtors, an unusual measure which was taken in order to...

Westdale decision.(Westdale Press)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Westdale Press has decided to put on to the backburner at least for a little while the decision to install a Heidelberg XL105. The Cardiff printer is not pulling its horns in though. Alongside a 12-colour Speedmaster SM102 it has decided that...

MAN Roland press demonstrated.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... MAN Roland claims that its R900 sheetfed press is the first in Japan capable of printing directly onto microflute corrugated board. The five-colour coating press was demonstrated at a recent open house at Crown Crio Printing, Tokyo, where it...

Donnelley buys back shares.(R.R. Donnelley and Sons Co.buys shares from GSC Partners)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... RR Donnelley is buying back around $200m in shares from investment firm GSC Partners, which currently holds a 4.8% stake for $360m in the company. GSC has already sold 4.7 million shares to Goldman Sachs for public offering and RR Donnelley...

Recycle Now campaign.(Promotional Products Association International)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Around 300 magazines are to carry adverts publicising the Recycle Now campaign from February to encourage readers to recycle their publications. The PPA has been using meetings with the Department of the Environment and Wrap to push for...

Investors in People award for Black Cat.(Black Cat Graphics, awards)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Black Cat Graphics, a Bristol digital design company, has been accredited with an Investors in People award in recognition of its commitment to staff development. Black Cat is also celebrating employee James Poole's completion of a two-year...

Vision in Print seminar.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Vision in Print will hold a seminar on March 14 to mark the official publication of its Best Practice in Maintenance project, an initiative launched last July to outline ways in which printers can enhance their productivity and market presence...

MoDo is merged into James McNaughton.(MoDo Merchants and James McNaughton Paper Group Ltd. merger)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Map Merchant Group, the paper merchanting arm of M-real Corporation, has officially merged MoDo Merchants and James McNaughton Group. And Vince Collins, marketing director for MoDo Merchants, was the first high profile casualty of the...

Jurkschat warns of web price war.(marketing director Angus Jurkschat of Quebecor Inc.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Spiralling overcapacity will lead to the UK's leading web printers battling for business in a price war this year, according to Quebecor's head sales executive. Angus Jurkschat, sales and marketing director at Quebecor, has warned that the...

Leach builds.(Leach Colour Inc.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Leach Colour, West Yorkshire, is building new premises in Huddersfield into which it will move all its operations in May. Managing director Richard Leach says the new site, the fourth location for Leach in the past 114 years, will greatly...

GMC appointment.(GMC Publishing appoints Roger Payne as business solutions manager )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... GMC, a provider of document design, composition and production software, has appointed Roger Payne as business solutions manager for its software technology. Mr Payne will be working with GMC's direct sales team and business partners to provide...

BAPC conference.(British Association for Print & Communication)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... The BAPC will hold its 2005 conference at the Moat House Hotel, Elstree, Herts, on Friday November 11. The conference aims to focus on methods and ideas to enable printers to increase business and improve their all round commercial strength....

Inkjet Technology course.(IMI Europe offers course for chemists and scientists )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... IMI Europe, which runs conference and seminar programmes in the digital printing industry, is running a four-day hands on course as part of the Inkjet Academy. The Practice of Inkjet Technology is aimed at chemists and scientists who want to...

Pira event.(Strategic Print Procurement, conference)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Pira has announced Strategic Print Procurement, its latest event to take place on February 15-16. The company says the event aims to make people more aware of the best cost saving and efficiency strategies to get the most from their print...

First phase of Arvato plant passes planners.(Liverpool City Council approves Arvato plant)
January 6, 2005... Arvato has been granted planning permission for phase one of its gravure plant in Liverpool, creating 400 jobs in the region. The approval was issued at a meeting of Liverpool City Council on December 21. Although subject to certain...

BLP gets school leavers in harness.(Cameron Butler, Catherine Blake, and Joanne Oliver appointed )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Tyneside print management company BLP has appointed three trainee client managers straight from school. Cameron Butler, 19, Catherine Blake, 17, and Joanne Oliver, 17, join the 170 employees at the company's Newcastle HQ. Ms Blake says:...

Type first.(Typeform Repro installs VLF Agfa ctp system)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Dublin prepress specialist Typeform Repro has installed Ireland's first VLF Agfa ctp system, an Xcalibur platesetter and processor. The company says that the E500,000 investment will expand its service and create additional niche business....

McCormick opts for Optimus 2020.(John McCormick, Optimus 2020 MIS system installation)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Family-run printer John McCormick, Glasgow, has invested #50,000 in a complete Optimus 2020 MIS system, including a financial software package. March will see the first stage of installation, which includes the basic 2020 and Optimus...

Xerox back London 2012 bid.
January 6, 2005... Xerox staff in Uxbridge have started a petition to back the London bid for the 2012 Olympic Games. The petition, signed by staff, family and friends, was presented to Olympic rowing silver medallist and London 2012 representative Alison Mowbray...

British Franchise Exhibition.
January 6, 2005... The British Franchise Exhibition 2005 will take place on Friday 28 and Saturday 29 January at the GMEX in Manchester. Exhibitors include MinuteMan Press and Lasertech UK. The exhibition incorporates the Growing Your Own Business Showcase and...

S and M Printing replaces press.(installs new press Speedmaster SM52 )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... S&M Printing in Dartford has bought a two-colour Speedmaster SM52 to replace a Fuji 65 press. This is the company's first new Heidelberg purchase, although it has used a secondhand Kord in the past. Managing director Simon Mackey says the...

New clean room.(Inca Digital Printers Ltd., buildings)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Inca Digital Printers has invested #500,000 in building a new Class 6 clean room at its Cambridge factory. The facility enables Inca to recondition damaged printheads for use in its range of digital inkjet printers, reducing cost of ownership...

BasysPrint appointment.(Horst Steppat appointed as managing director )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Dr Horst Steppat has replaced Friedrich Lullau as managing director of BasysPrint as of December 20. He will report to Dick Tilanus, chief executive officer of parent company Punch Graphics. Dr Steppat was previously director of r&d for...

Colour World installs inking system.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Colour World in Kilkenny has installed a Technotrans Handy.fill inking system to run on a 75 four-colour press. The system was supplied by Sakurai, which has now taken a new Handy.fill into its Hounslow showroom. Copyright: CMP Information...

Fulmar is second UK adopter of Ultima.(Fulmar PLC, Ultima platesetter)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Fulmar has become the second UK user of Screen's Ultima platesetter, installing the 16pp version over the Christmas break, the only time to install the platesetter without interrupting production. The thermal device replaces a Barco...

MM installs DC8000.(Mail Marketing International, Docucolour 8000 digital press )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Mail Marketing in Bristol has installed a Docucolour 8000 digital press after increasing demand from its customers. The company, which specialises in the direct mail industry, says the press has allowed an increase in personalisation,...

PY has free green offer.(PrintYorkshire)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... PrintYorkshire is inviting print ers in Yorkshire and the Humber to free seminars on environmental management practices. The group, a partnership between regional development agency Yorkshire Forward and the BPIF to promote the region's...

Promail grows range with C45 Unimailer.(Promail and Kalmar MailPro contract)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Mailroom machinery supplier Promail has extended its range of inserting equipment with the addition of a new rotary inserter from Kalmar MailPro. The C45 Unimailer is a modular, servo driven machine with multi-pick technology that can feed...

Cello acquisition.(Cello Group acquires Navigator Responsive Advertising)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Cello Group has acquired Navigator Responsive Advertising, a direct marketing agency in Edinburgh, for #4.6m in cash, loan notes and new ordinary shares. The company says Navigator will be incorporated into Target, the direct and database...

Heidelberg to ship new Eurobind from next year.(Heidelberg Color Publishing Solutions Ltd.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Heidelberg will ship its new Eurobind 4000 perfect binder from the middle of next year. The automated system can produce 4000 books an hour and also handles magazines, brochures and annual reports and is targeted at industrial bookbinders and...

Muller Martini launch.(MOD 30 Polyurethane premelter)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Muller Martini has launched the MOD 30 Polyurethane (PUR) premelter to accompany its range of perfect binders. It can melt 30 kilos of PUR per hour and stores 3 litres at one time, with a light to indicate when running low. The heating/cooling...

Flint Ink rise.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Flint Ink has announced a rise of 6% in commercial ink costs in North America which came into effect on January 1. The increase is due to the rising price of raw materials, transportation and energy. Copyright: CMP Information Ltd.

Wyndeham Heron to print Trip magazine.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Wyndeham Heron is to print the 60,000 print run of Trip magazine, a new publication focusing on short trip and city break travellers for the over 25-year-old age group. Published by Media Company Publications, Edinburgh, the magazine will...

Videojet appointment.(Videojet Technologies Inc. appoints Rob Leonard as sales director )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Videojet Technologies has made Rob Leonard responsible for UK sales of its complete laser range. Previously sales director of laser manufacturer Altec, acquired by Videojet last May, Mr Leonard replaces Jonathan Pritchard who has been promoted...

Domino denies takeover rumours.(Domino Printing Sciences PLC)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Inkjet barcode company Domino Printing Sciences has denied it is the subject of a takeover bid by a US suitor. Shares in the Cambridge firm jumped 7.5% in the week of December 20 amid rumours of an approach by a US industrial conglomerate,...

EFI set to buy to balance reliance on controllers.
January 6, 2005... EFI is planning acquisitions in a bid to counter the effects of demand swings in its core colour controllers market. A downturn in this business has prompted the company to warn shareholders that sales in Q4 will be 25% lower than at this...

Talisman buys into B1.(Talisman Print Services acquires Colourworks)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Talisman Print, Rainham, Essex, has bought a 50% stake in Docklands litho and digital printer Colourworks. The acquisition takes the turnover of Talisman, which is part of the Dsi group, to #15m, with overall group turnover expected to be...

Printline gets SM52-2.(24 Hour Printline buys Speedmaster SM52-2 printing press)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Rochester printer 24 Hour Printline has bought a Speedmaster SM52-2 to replace its QM46. Managing director John Brown says his company looked at a lot of presses before deciding on the SM52 for its "excellent" press register. The SM52 is a...

INM buys into India.(Independent News & Media buys stake of Jagran Prakashan Pvt.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Independent News & Media has staked its claim in the burgeoning Indian newspaper market by taking a 26% stake in publisher Jagran Prakashan Pvt. The E25.5m acquisition, expected to be complete early this year, will provide the Irish media...

Barclays hands office print deal to Xerox UK.(Barclays Bank PLC, contract)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Barclays Bank has passed the responsibility of managing the internal office print requirements for 200 of its regional offices to Xerox UK. The contract is to run for just over five years and is said to be worth about #33m. Xerox secured...

Boss Print adds litho with Heidelberg bundle order.(Boss Print and Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG contract, printing machinery installation)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... London printer Boss Print is to add litho to its existing digital business, with the installation of #1.5m of Heidelberg equipment. The order comprises a six-colour Speedmaster CD74 perfector with coating and extended delivery, a Topsetter...

Forms Technology is now FT Print.(change of name)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Forms Technology, part of the #9m FT Holdings Group, has changed its name to coincide with both the launch of its online service and a major push in print management services. The direct mailing and print management company has been renamed...

COMMENT: Forecast is valid for another year.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... A year ago Printing World was predicting some interesting changes for the industry in 2004. Looking back it seems that the same ten predictions, with the exception of the one related to Drupa, can stand for another 12 months. This is not to say...

Letter: More detail required.(Letter to the Editor)
January 6, 2005... After reading Rod Hayes' article `Why buy... Just Normlicht' (Printing World, December 16) on viewing conditions and the Normlicht products, I feel a little more detail is needed. The above ISO standard requires lighting to match `CIE...

Letter: Deeper understanding.(Letter to the Editor)
January 6, 2005... May I congratulate through your pages Lloyd James Group and Marketing UK on their foresight in recording the benefits of tailored data and its impact on direct marketing in your November 25 issue `Facts and Figures' analysis. The issue is...

Joint venture.(Axel Springer Verlag AG and Bertelsmann AG joint venture)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... European Union staff have recommended that the European Commission should reject a review of the proposed joint venture between newspaper publisher Axel Springer and media company Bertelsmann by the German Federal Cartel Office. Instead, the...

Novar set to be sold.(Novar PLC to merge with Honeywell International Inc.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Technology company Novar, which owns cheque printers Clarke American, looks set to be sold to Honeywell International, after the US manufacturer placed a bid for the company of $1.5bn. Honeywell International is expected to sell off the...

Encouraging employee contributions.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Small businesses should have pension contributions offset against their tax payments in an effort to encourage employee contributions, according to the Employer Task Force on Pensions. The Employer Task Force on Pension's suggestion is designed...

UBM appointment.(United Business Media to appoint David Levin as chief executive officer)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... United Business Media, publisher of Printing World, has revealed that David Levin will succeed Lord Hollick as chief executive officer in April. Mr Levin joins from mobile software company Symbian and has previously headed up Psion and...

Donnelley buyback.(R.R. Donnelley and Sons Co., securities)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... US based printing services company RR Donnelley & Sons will buy back $300m of its common stock. Based on a buyback of $200m in 2005, RR Donnelley is targeting operating earnings per share of $1.95 for the full year compared with $1.61 for 2004....

Stora Enso completes acquisition.(Stora Enso Oyj acquires Intercell from International Finance Corporation)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Stora Enso has completed its acquisition of a 66% stake in Polish packaging producer Intercell from private shareholders and the International Finance Corporation. The deal is part of Stora Enso's expansion of its packaging board operations and...

Johnston is on target but ads growth slows.(revenues at Johnston Press PLC)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Growth from advertising revenues slowed in the second half of the year at Johnston Press but was higher than expected, with the regional publisher confident it will outstrip full-year profit targets. The 6% increase in the first half of the...

Delphax disappoints with dip in revenues.(Delphax Technologies Inc.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Delphax Technologies reported a fall in revenues of 8% in its full-year results as equipment sales sunk to their lowest level in a decade. The digital print engine manufacturer said the disappointing figures are the result of limited new...

Adobe surges to record returns.(revenue at Adobe Systems Inc.)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Adobe surged to record quarterly and annual revenues in its latest financial figures and says its good fortunes will continue with double- digit growth in 2005. The graphic arts software giant recorded a 20% increase in revenues to $429.5m...

Output decrease starts to slow up.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Output from the paper, printing and publishing industries continued to decrease in the three months to October but the sector has been able to stem the growing decreases it has seen since the beginning of last year. Output was down 1% in...

Communisis closes doors at Gateshead.(facility closure)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Communisis has closed its loss-making Gateshead label printing business and as a consequence 144 jobs will be lost. The decision to close the doors at the site heralds the end of production at the former Waddington Labels site, which has...

Appointment of administrators.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... * Rutland Press Litho Ltd Paper, printing and publishing. Administrators: RD Smailes and SB Ryman, Rothman Pantall & Co, Clareville House, 26-27 Oxendon Street, London SW1Y 4EP * Arem Media Ltd A printing company. Administrators: D Hill and...

Appointment of liquidators.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... * Flyer Revolution Ltd Print and design. Liquidators: DF Wilson and JNR Pitts, Wilson Pitts, Glendevon House, Hawthorn Park, Coal Road, Leeds LS14 1PQ * 6S Communications Ltd Graphic design company. Liquidator: MS Goldstein, Mark Goldstein...

Meetings of creditors.
January 6, 2005... * Print Marque (UK) Ltd at The Watermill Hotel, London Road, Bourne End, Hertfordshire on December 23 * Carr Publishing Ltd at 26 Priestgate, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire on December 23 Copyright: CMP Information Ltd.

Notices to creditors.(claim for securities)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... * Imagine Graphics Ltd Creditors to send claims to GG King, 23 Porters Wood, St Albans, Hertfordshire AL3 6PQ by January 31 * Libra Gravure Cylinders (Plastics Division) Ltd Creditors to send claims to DG Platt, David Platt Associates,...

Final meetings.
January 6, 2005... * Printing Services Ltd at Church Steps House, Queensway, Halesowen, West Midlands B63 4AB on January 10 at 2pm for members and at 2.30pm for creditors * DuPont & Fujifilm Electronic Imaging Ltd at Ernst & Young LLP, 1 More London Place,...

Jefferson sell off of Munksjo is imminent.(Jefferson Smurfit Corp. )(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Jefferson Smurfit is looking to realise #308m through the sale of one of its Swedish speciality papers businesses. The Irish paper and packaging group is understood to be close to sealing an agreement over the sale of Smurfit Munksjo...

Direct mail's junk mail tag.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Complex software applications and new digital printers may be encouraging a move to personalised one-to-one customer communications, but the direct mail industry is still a long way from losing its `junk mail' tag. According to the Direct...

Crystal ball gazing.(Printing Forecast 2005)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... TrendWatch Graphic Arts has revealed its predictions for the challenges and opportunities that face US printing and prepress companies during the course of next year in its Printing Forecast 2005. The findings reflect a more muted outlook...

SMES in move to CRM.(small and medium sized companies, customer relationship management software)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... CRM software vendors are set to exploit the relatively untapped SME revenue stream as smaller organisations look to gain greater control of customer communications. A recent report by Datamonitor predicts that the level of spending by SMEs...

UK under #230m paper mountain.(ICM survey)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Printer manufacturer Lexmark says that businesses in the UK are wasting #231m worth of paper every year through bad print practice. Research carried out for the company by ICM Research shows that one in every five pages printed is never...

Economy to shine in 2005.(UPS survey)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... According to a survey of 1,500 European business leaders conducted by American courier company UPS: * Net job gains in Britain will increase by 25% compared with 2002 levels * 30% of British executives will be hiring more workers while...

Polestar prints lively title for estate agents.(Polestar Colchester)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Polestar Colchester is printing a new trade magazine tagged as a survival guide for estate agents. Sold Out is published by 3 Cliffs Media in London and pitches itself as a lively, fun publication for those in the profession. "Estate...

Q&A Sale and leaseback or hire purchase?
January 6, 2005... Reg Peplow discusses the merits and disadvantages of several methods of purchasing vital assets How can I borrow short-term to buy new equipment? If, like many readers, you are keen to buy new equipment to help grow your business,...

Getting there: Marian Lively.(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Biography Marian Lively, client services director, Corporate Mailing Matters, has been with CMM for seven years. The company manages and processes the mailing of shareholder relations documents What was your first job in the industry?...

Pomeroy aids resolve to reduce alcohol use.(isopropyl alchohol)(Brief Article)
January 6, 2005... Those making New Year resolutions to work with reduced alcohol levels have every chance of succeeding. This is due in part to the wonderful support available from suppliers. It is now pretty clear that if the will to change is there, the...

Understanding RGB & CMYK.(Red-Green-Blue (color model based on additive color primaries))(Cyan-Magenta-Yellow-Key/blacK (4-color ink model used for printing) )
January 6, 2005... The X-Rite Colour Guide and Glossary serialisation part four We have examined how our perception of colour is a result of the interaction between light, object and viewer and how different colours and surfaces affect light in its own unique...

Production CV: Robert Samuels.(curriculum vitae)
January 6, 2005... Biography Robert Samuels is a number one machine minder on an eight-colour KBA Rapida 105 at Offset Productions in Aylesford, Kent. He has been with the company for three years What was your dream job when you were a child? ...

The way it worked: Crabtree Sovereign.
January 6, 2005... A press made in England more than 44 years ago is still printing perfect dot for dot register front to back on a sheet 65in wide. The Crabtree Sovereign at Bath Press can comfortably deliver around 7,000 sheets on the deck an hour, perhaps even...