International Travel News articles from February 2003

International Travel News archives from February 2003

Boarding pass.(Letter to the Editor)(Editorial)
February 1, 2003... Dear Globetrotter: Welcome to the 324th issue of your monthly overseas travel magazine. Aung San Suu Kyi, whose National League for Democracy was denied its landslide victory in 1990 by the ruling generals in Burma, now called...

Give us your input: favorite cities overseas.
February 1, 2003... What are your three favorite cities to visit (outside of North America)? Why? What in each makes it a treat for you, and what about it would travelers appreciate? When did you last visit each? If you have pictures to accompany your letter,...

Report cards: on-the-spot reports from around the globe.
February 1, 2003... The following is a sampling of reports received from ITN readers around the globe. ITN invites you to join our corps of reporters -- just drop a card in the mail while your travel impressions are fresh in your mind, or e-mail...

The Bahamas--take the plunge.
February 1, 2003... "Don't mind the barracuda. He's friendly." These were the last words I heard before jumping off the boat ladder into the water at Mermaid Reef. And, sure enough, a 4-foot-long barracuda scooted by about 20 feet away. Soon after, coming...

Cultural adventures to Russia, Eastern Europe and Central Asia.(list of tours )
February 1, 2003... 2003 Escorted Small Group Tours... * Romania & Bulgaria: Folkways & Fortresses - New! Uncover layers of history in ancient Sofia and hear the strories of rural inhabitants of Romania's Maramures region. Tour Dates: May 29-June 14 *...

Traveler's intercom.(multiple articles )
February 1, 2003... Euro travelers' checks rejected I traveled in the Loire Valley, Brittany and Normandy, France, Oct. 7-24, '02, with six friends in a rental van. The B&Bs at which we stayed did not accept American Express Travelers' Cheques in euros. We...

Funniest thing.(travel anecdote)
February 1, 2003... Tell ITN about the funniest thing that ever happened to you while traveling in a foreign country. There are no restrictions on length. (ITN prints no info on destinations in the U.S., Canada or Mexico.) The ITN staff will choose each month's...

Venezuela turmoil. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... On Dec. 20, 2002, the Department of State ordered the departure of non-emergency personnel and all eligible family members of the U.S. Embassy in Venezuela due to a severe shortage of fuel and the deteriorating political and security situation;...

Be vigilant in Kenya, Djibouti. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... On Nov. 28, 2002, 11 people died in a car bomb attack on a hotel near Mombasa, Kenya, and there was an unsuccessful attempt to shoot down an Israeli charter plane departing Mombasa. The threat to aircraft by terrorists using shoulder-fired...

Jordan update. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Although the U.S. Embassy in Amman has lifted its authorization of voluntary departure' for dependents and nonemergency personnel, the State Department continues to urge U.S. citizens to carefully consider the risks of travel to Jordan. On...

Solomon Islands. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Numerous incidents in late 2002 have deepened the ongoing political, economic and security crisis in the Solomon Islands' capital, Honiara. In a Nov. 23 assassination attempt, a gunman seriously wounded a special advisor to the Prime...

Lebanon incidents. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The increase in tensions in the 'Middle East has prompted a dramatic rise in anti-U.S. rhetoric and public sentiment. Recent incidents in Lebanon include bombings directed at U.S. franchises and the murder of a U.S. citizen in Sidon. There have...

Savor the flavors of Italy: A midsummer's dream cruise sampling the cultural delights in the land of La Dolce Vita.
February 1, 2003... Swan Hellenic rakes you on a unique, unforgettable journey around Italy, enjoying her renowned regional food and wine and experiencing her peerless art and history. Departing from glorious Venice, this 15-day itinerary is rich in Italian...

Avoid Afghanistan. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The Department of State strongly warns U.S. citizens against travel to Afghanistan. The ability of Afghan authorities to maintain order and ensure security is limited. Remnants of the former Taliban regime and the terrorist Al-Qaida network...

Kyrgyz Republic. (News Watch).(travel security)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... While the Government of the Kyrgyz Republic has been helpful in ensuring the safety of, U.S. citizens, ongoing regional security concerns resulting from the republic's close proximity to Afghanistan require all U.S. citizens to carefully...

Tajikistan security. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... In Tajikistan, the security situation has improved since the conclusion of the civil war in 1997. However, incidents of hostage-taking and assassination have occurred in recent years and threats against Americans, including the threat of...

Threats in Yemen. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The Department of State reaffirms its warning to U.S. citizens to defer travel to Yemen. The Department has received credible reports that terrorists associated with al-Qaeda have planned attacks against U.S. interests in Yemen, and the...

Current warnings. (News Watch).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... As ITN went to press, the State Department had travel warnings on 25 destinations: Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Jordan, Venezuela, Cote d'Ivoire, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Central African Republic, Indonesia, Libya, Somalia, Angola, Pakistan, Burundi,...

Screening of checked baggage. (Travel Briefs).
February 1, 2003... As of Jan. 1, 2003, in U.S. airports, all checked baggage is being screened and is subject to being opened and hand-searched. The U.S. Transportation Security Administration (TSA) suggests the following tips for dealing with the new luggage...

US imposes new visitor regulations. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Although Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are supporting the U.S. in its "war on terror," both have been added to a list of countries that Washington considers high risk for terrorism, bringing the number of countries on the list to 20. Consequently,...

Rent a bike in Kyoto. (Travel Briefs).(Kyoto Cycling Tour Project )(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The Kyoto Cycling Tour Project (KCTP) offers bicycle rentals only five minutes on foot from Kyoto station. An all-day rental will cost [yen]1,000-[yen]3,000 (approx. $8-$25), depending on the bike selected. A range of city and mountain bikes is...

Port calls in seductive Scandinavia.
February 1, 2003... As the Deutschland churned its way westward across the Baltic toward Scandinavia, a local adage came to mind: "If you want to succeed with a new product, get the Swedes to manufacture it, the Danes to market it and the Finns to design it." ...

Fire aboard Wind Song. (Travel Briefs).(cruise liner)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Rescuers evacuated 127 passengers from the luxury cruise liner Wind Song after a fire broke out on board while it was anchored off of Raiatea in French Polynesia. All the passengers aboard the 4-masted vessel were taken off unhurt on Sunday,...

World Explorer Cruises. (Travel Briefs).(Silja Line joint venture canceled)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... World Explorer Cruises announced that it has decided not to proceed with a joint venture with Silja Line to employ a replacement vessel from 2003 onward for its year-round program, including Alaska and potential around-the-world itineraries....

Bullet train news. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... * In December 2002 the route of the Tohoku bullet train, which was running from Tokyo to Morioka, Japan, was extended past Morioka to Hachinohe station. This new Hayate train will make 15 round trips daily between Tokyo and Hachinohe,...

Rail card in Tokyo. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Suica IO Cards are now in circulation in the Tokyo area. This card functions as a debit card, automatically deducting train fares from the amount on the card (in 2,000-yen increments). Suica IO cards may be used only for JR East trains and are...

See Tasmania SmartVisit Card. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... For one price, the See Tasmania SmartVisit Card provides visitors entry to more than 50 of the Australian state's most popular attractions, including historic Port Arthur, the Don River Railway and Boags Brewery Tour & Museum plus the Huon...

London for eight rainy, but glorious, days.
February 1, 2003... With enough air miles for a business-class upgrade on an overseas flight, my husband, Don, and I decided to visit London once again. On March 11, 2002, we took a commuter flight from San Angelo, Texas, to Dallas, then boarded an American...

Frequent-flyer mileage award programs. (Worth the trouble?).
February 1, 2003... ITN asked readers to weigh in on airlines' frequent-flyer mileage award programs. What's good about them? What's bad about them? How can you collect the most miles and get the most out of them? Below are several responses. You are welcome...

The unique wildlife of Australia.
February 1, 2003... In August '02 I took a 19-day trip to Eastern Australia, joining a tour in Cairns which took me by coach 1,330 miles down to Sydney. Purchased through Qantas, the tour, operated by AAT Kings, plus airline ticket and Sydney stay, cost $4,588...

Great Britain & Ireland. (Accommodations Worldwide).
February 1, 2003... Wonderful Chelsea (contact Francoise Phillips, 6 Tite St., Chelsea, London, SW3 4HY, UK; phone 011 44 20 7376 7646, fax 011 44 20 7376 3747 or e-mail wonderfulchelsea@aol.com). This lovely apartment is located in one of the most desirable...

Europe. (Accomodations Worldwide).(Number 11, Brugge, Belgium)(Letter to the Editor)
February 1, 2003... I took a vacation in HOLLAND and BELGIUM in October '02 and wanted to put in a good word about a fantastic B&B in Brugge (Bruges) called Number 11 (Peerdenstraat 11, Brugge 8000, Belgium; phone 32 5033 0675, fax 32 5033 0690, e-mail...

How to be more popular.(offering back issues )
February 1, 2003... If you would like to distribute issues of ITN to the members of your travel club, travel class or any gathering of travelers, let ITN know how many people you are expecting and we will send a number of back issues for you to hand out. Write to...

'Away from it all' in the Azores.
February 1, 2003... As I have never seen any articles on the Azores since I have been subscribing, I decided to write a little about this virtually undiscovered area. My husband and I went to Sao Miguel, the largest of the nine islands that comprise the Azores,...

Australia. (Tours in Review).
February 1, 2003... We took a superb trip to Australia, Aug. 21-Sept. 19, '02. We spent some time in Darwin before flying to Perth, where we took a 4-day tour with AAT Kings (visit www.aat.kings.com -- must book through travel agent). The package, priced at...

Italy. (Tours in Review).
February 1, 2003... Want to visit parts of Tusancy as will as enjoy enlightening lectures on Renaissance art, architecture, literature, history, contemporary politics, the Italian family and the palio? Do you like staying in one location without constantly packing...

India. (Tours in Reviews).
February 1, 2003... Do you remember "The Green Fairy Book"? "The Jewel in the Crown"? "The Far Pavilions"? I do. So I signed on at first glance to "The Maharajas of Rajasthan," a dream trip offered by Elderhostel (Boston, MA). It ran Jan. 25-Feb. 11, '02. ...

Tibet. (Tours in Review).
February 1, 2003... In April '01 I was one of a group of six Americans who traveled to Tibet on "The Lhasa Express" tour offered by Third Eye Travel (33220 Sandpiper Place, Fremont, CA 94555; phone 800/456-3393, fax 510/487-9090, e-mail...

Belgium and Holland. (Tours in Review).
February 1, 2003... In April '02, four friends, my husband and I took a "Netherlands River Cruise" with Vantage Deluxe World Travel (90 Canal St., Boston, MA 02114; phone 800/322-6677 or visit www.vantagetravel.com). Our first days were at a hotel in...

Holland and Belgium. (Tours in Review).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... We had a wonderful travel experience, Oct. 9-25, '02. We took the "Treasures of Holland, Belgium, and the Floriade" tour, plus a Brussels extension, from Vantage Deluxe World Travel (Boston, MA). The price for the two of us was $6,274,...

Viewfinders: share your special travel photo(s).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... It was by chance that we went to Turkey in October 2000. Friends asked us to accompany them and, although it was not a destination we dreamt of, it immediately revealed itself as an enchantment. We visited only the southern region of the...

Be a good friend.(soliciting subscriptions )
February 1, 2003... Share ITN with another world traveler. Just sent his or her name and address to International Travel News, 2120 28th Street, Sacramento, CA 95818. An absolutely free copy of the magazine will be sent to hem. We DON'T use your name. ...

Travel clubs update.(multiple articles)
February 1, 2003... * The SAN FRANCISCO "ITN travel club" has grown to approximately 110 people -- quite the accomplishment since we started with 37 eager travelers in late August 2001. 2002 was an exciting year for us. Our group enjoyed the following...

Hong Kong's new subway line. (All Aboard!).(multiple articles)
February 1, 2003... When you ask Tony 5.0. Yeung, Operations Manager of Hong Kong's Transit Authority (MTR), "Is the Hong Kong subway the best in the world?" he will pause and answer, "We try to make it so." The MTR made another big improvement on Aug. 18,...

Tulip-time cruise. (Cruise Cavalcade).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Sunny Land Tours has released a new 9-day deluxe all-inclusive river cruise visiting Holland and Belgium that sells from $1,599 including round-trip air. This special is valid for Saturday departures from the U.S. on April 12, 19 & 26. The...

French waterways. (Cruise Cavalcade).(French Country Waterways)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... For the third year, French Country Waterways is offering a special spring savings of $1,400 per couple together with 2001 rates for all April departures of its barge cruises in Burgundy, Champagne and the Upper Loire Val1ey. April 6 to 27...

Tours: A selection of escorted tours.
February 1, 2003... "CROWN OF BRITAIN" - 7-, 8- and 10-day tours. Departures March-November '03. * South to North -- 7-day tour starts in London, visits Cambridge, overnights in York and drives through Northumberland National Park en route to a final two...

Reviewers' corner: The latest travel-book reviews.(Lets Go: Central America)(Book Review)
February 1, 2003... Here is one of the latest travel-book reviews written by ITN readers. "Lets Go: Central America," edited by Susan C. Frauenhoffer (2002, Let's Go Travel Publications, 67 Mount Auburn St., Cambridge, MA 02138; visit www.letsgo.com. ISBN...

Book drawing.(soliciting book reviews)
February 1, 2003... Since ITN readers are among the most-experienced travelers, we'd like your no-holds-barred reviews of some of the latest travel books. If you recently have been to or soon are going to the destination written about in one of the books...

The Palgrave Concise Historical Atlas of the Balkans. (New on the Bookshelf).(Book Review)
February 1, 2003... "The Palgrave Concise Historical Atlas of the Balkans" by Dennis P. Hupchick and Harold E. Cox (2001, 175 Fifth Ave., New York, NY 10010. ISBN 031223970X -- 128 pp., $19.95 paperback). Reading an atlas is a good way to get an overview of a...

A Russian cruise on the MS Kirov. (The Discerning Traveler).
February 1, 2003... (First of three parts) It was with mixed emotions that Flory and I started our June 2002 12-day tour from Moscow to St. Petersburg on the MS Kirov, one of the boats owned by Viking River Cruises (Woodland Hills, CA; phone 800/707-1287)....

'Seoul's Best 100'.(guidebook )(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Reflecting surveys taken among tourists in Korea, the guidebook "Seoul's Best 100" presents visitors' favorite attractions and things to do, to eat and to purchase in the city. The guidebook introduces in detail sightseeing attractions,...

Easier to take pets to Britain. (Brit Bits).(Pets Travel Scheme)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Three years ago, Britain launched the Pets Travel Scheme, relaxing the country's tough animal quarantine regulations on pets brought from certain countries. As of Dec. 11, 2002, dogs and cats from the USA and Canada that meet the requirements...

The new Darwin Centre. (Brit Bits).(London)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... In London, the first phase of the Darwin Centre opened on Sept. 30, 2002, for the first time giving visitors to the Natural History Museum behind-the-scenes access to the museum's vast collections. Guests are able to explore the huge...

Value-added tax (VAT) refunds. (Rick Steves' Europe[C]).
February 1, 2003... Every year, tourists visiting Europe leave behind a billion dollars of refundable sales taxes. There's a reason why visitors end up donating their dollars to their host countries: VAT refunds often aren't worth the trouble. You could burn a...

BVI airport expansion. (Around the Caribbean).(British Virgin Islands)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... In Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands, the first phase of the expansion of the territory's main international airport is almost complete. Work began in April 2000. Phase I includes the new passenger terminal and cargo building,...

Air Jamaica Vacations. (Around the Caribbean).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Air Jamaica Vacations, Air Jamaica's in-house vacation division, is offering 4-day/3-night all-inclusive Caribbean vacations until April 30, 2003. From Miami, the package is priced from $669 per person, double occupancy, to Jamaica; from...

SunBreeze in Belize. (Around the Caribbean).(hotel)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The SunBreeze 'Hotel on Ambergris Caye, Belize, is known for its U-shaped layout which allows every guest a view of the Caribbean. It's also located near some great diving and snorkeling sites. Until April 17, 2003, the SunBreeze is...

Africa.(multiple articles)
February 1, 2003... African tidbits Here is a smattering of tours to Africa and some up-to-date information on things that are happening there. South African Airways reinstated its daily service between New York and Johannesburg on Dec. 1, 2002. SAA...

Springtime in Provence. (Timeless Roads of the Mideast & Mediterranean).
February 1, 2003... Markets of Provence A way to gain wonderful insight into an area is to browse its various markets, whether it's one here in hometown USA, London's Portobello Road Market or, our special enjoyment, markets in the Provence area of France....

Libya's Roman heritage. (Focus on Archaeology).
February 1, 2003... Two thousand years ago, much of North Africa bordering the Mediterranean was Roman. The Romans -- like the Phoenicians and the Greeks before them -- gathered the riches of the African continent, filtering them northward along caravan routes to...

Arica to Iquique. (Far Horizons).(Northern Chile; includes related article)
February 1, 2003... (Part 1 of 3 on northern Chile) In September I had the opportunity to return to Chile to visit the northern half of the country as a guest of Cocha Travel, Chile's largest tour operator. My friend Scott Jones, who is in charge of the North...

Preparing for seafaring--from Barcelona. (Kevin Keating's Kilroy Was Here!).
February 1, 2003... We had two days to explore Barcelona before boarding the MN Silver Whisper, the newest vessel in the Silversea fleet. The wide, tree-lined avenues of Barcelona are bumper-to-bumper with fast-moving traffic. The drivers are very good, thanks...

Children stay, eat free in Zurich. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Zurich Tourism is offering their special family package again throughout 2003: children up to 16 years of age accompanied by their parent(s) receive free meals and accommodation (in separate room upon request) during weekends (Friday-Monday) at...

Birthday savings in Interlaken. (Travel Briefs).(Destination Interlaken hotels)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Throughout the Jungfrau region of Switzerland, approximately 40 hotels belonging to "Destination Interlaken" are also known as "Happy Birthday Hotels," and to. everybody whose birthday coincides with a stay of six or more overnights they offer...

Machu Picchu Sanctuary Lodge. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Many know that the Machu Picchu Sanctuary Lodge is the only hotel at the site of the ancient Incan ruins of Machu Picchu in Peru, but not everyone knows that the site is open at night exclusively for hotel guests. Each night, hotel guests...

Virgin Vacations. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Virgin Atlantic Airways has had a vacation division since 1994, but recently its capabilities were expanded with the establishment of Virgin Vacations, a new subsidiary of Virgin Atlantic, Ltd. One of their first actions was to add the...

'Helsinki Weekend'. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Finland in the land that Nokia calls home, you can dial your mobile phone to dispense a Coke from a vending machine. In Helsinki, you can tango at dance halls, choose from 70 museums, nestle in at the opera house (www.operafin.fi), dine at...

Dive to deep sea vents of the Titanic. (Travel Briefs).(Space Adventures Ltd.)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Two new tours to the bottom of the world's oceans using state-of-the-art submersibles are available from Space Adventures, Ltd. Under the heading "Terrestrial Tours: InnerSpace," the voyages are part of Space Adventures' "Steps to Space"[R]...

Purchase Korail Pass online. (Travel Briefs).(Korea Rail System KR pass)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The KR Pass of the Korea Rail System (Korail) allows visitors to travel on an unlimited basis throughout Korea. Formerly available only at Korean train stations or from a limited number of agents in the U.S., visitors now can purchase the...

Tasmania travel pass. (Travel Briefs).(Adventure Tours Australia)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Adventure Tours Australia has launched a "hop on, hop 'off" Tasmanian travel pass allowing budget travelers to journey around the island state at their own pace. The US$210 pass is valid for eight months and allows visitors to explore...

Adelaide, roving volunteers. (Travel Briefs).(Australia)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Adelaide, Australia, has a force of 50 volunteer guides who rove the city center, airport and local event venues offering assistance, advice and directions to visitors. The expert city guides, dressed in distinctive green uniforms, also...

Charting the industrial revolution. (Travel Briefs).(Blaenafon Community Heritage & Cordell Museum, Wales)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Blaenafon, the South Wales town awarded World Heritage Site status by UNESCO for its key role in the industrial revolution, has a new museum telling the story of the town. The Blaenafon Community Heritage & Cordell Museum, in what was...

New garden in Northumbria. (Travel Briefs).(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... A new garden is taking shape in northeast England that is the inspiration of Jane, the Duchess of Northumberland. Situated in Northumbria's lush, unspoilt countryside, the 12-acre site surrounding Alnwick Castle, one of England's most imposing...

KeyCard Luggage Lock. (Travel Briefs).
February 1, 2003... The KeyCard Luggage Lock has no dials and no keyholes. It works with a "hotel-like" coded keycard that you can attach to your keychain or carry in your wallet. The lock measures 3" x 3/4" x 1/4" and the key card is credit card. sized. Both come...

The ITN Globetrotter Award. (Travel Briefs).(countries most visited)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... Travelers have many different goals. Some are determined to set foot on every country on Earth; others want to visit all seven continents or all of the time zones. Then there are those who want to "take the time to smell the roses," in many...

Person to person. (Travel Briefs).(Letter to the Editor)
February 1, 2003... Reader-to-reader info exchange Planning a trip overseas and need specific info? Let your fellow ITN readers provide the answers. Send your question to Person to Person, do ITN, 2120 28th St., Sacramento, CA 95818, or e-mail...

ITN Globetrotters.(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The following ITN readers are the latest to receive the ITN Globetrotter Award. Congratulations go to... * SALLY .K. EBLING, ROCKY RIVER, OH * JOHN R. FREI, LAFAYETTE, CA * HELAINE S. GREENBERG, RENO, NV * MICHAEL E. GODFREY,...

ITN traveler awards.
February 1, 2003... Following are the travel awards now available from ITN. For which ones do you qualify? * All Central America (Visit all seven countries.) * All South America (Have you "conquered" the continent?) * The Continents (Separate' 6- and...

Do you qualify for ITN's Traveled the continents award?
February 1, 2003... Have you been among the few to have visited all seven continents... or among the select travelers who have been to six? If so, you deserve an award and ITN has one for you. For the seven-continent award, just tell us one date of visit to...

Continents award winners.(six and seven continents visited)(Brief Article)
February 1, 2003... The following ITN readers are the latest to receive the Seven Continents Award. Congratulations go to... * ROBERT D. BUCHAN, HACKETT-STOWN, NJ * EARL R. LAYMAN, KNOXVILLE, TN * LOIS M. MORLOCK, HASTINGS, MN * MICHAEL B. RAGAR,...

How much, please?
February 1, 2003... Travelers have differing ideas of "budget," "moderate" and "expensive" prices for hotel rooms, restaurant meals, etc. Please include approximate PRICES when writing to ITN.

On the Money with Xe.Net.(Xe.Net Free Currency Services)(Illustration)
February 1, 2003... On the Money with Xe.Net The value of $1 worldwide The following are approximate rates of exchange and are provided for reference purposes only. Rates vary by date and location. These rates are current as of December 31, 2002. ...

Forewarned is forearmed.(Column)
February 1, 2003... One of our responsibilities here is to, as much as possible, take the travail out of travel. Thus, we allow our readers great latitude in writing about incidents that struck them as being less than what they would hope for during their...